We all have a general understanding of what emotional intelligence is, but there are also a lot of misconceptions that prevail around the concept, especially in relation to leadership. What does it really mean to be emotionally intelligent, especially if you’re a leader? Jeffrey Edwards brings in two experts from Genos North America to give us a full picture of emotional intelligence from the standpoint of science and practical leadership experience. As the firm’s Managing Directors, Debbie Muno and Jeff Summers are passionate about their work in helping HR professionals, business owners, and executives improve performance, engagement, and culture in their organizations by leveraging the underappreciated power of emotional intelligence. In this conversation, you will learn that we carry our emotions wherever we go and it pays to work with them instead of against them! Tune in to learn more.
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Understanding The Value Of Emotional Intelligence For Leaders With Debbie Muno And Jeff Summers
It is awesome to always have guests on the show. Our guests are people who I’ve had the opportunity to meet and learn from talking on the topic of emotional intelligence. When you think about emotional intelligence, there are many different concepts and ideas that come to light. For the most part, there’s a general understanding of what that is and what it represents in terms of workplace and leadership. Sometimes it can be misunderstood. I don’t think people get the full picture of what it means to be emotionally intelligent. What is truly EI? What does that mean for you, the implications when it comes to not only you as a leader and your effectiveness but also how it contributes to the performance and the bottom line of your organization?
Our guests are two professionals who have been working with coaches, HR professionals, business owners, and executives of companies for many years. They have brought that experience of testing and assessments as well as consultation in the areas of sales, organizational development, corporate teamwork, and work performance to their clients each and every day. They do it with passion and excitement. They also bring lots of insights and tools to help organizations and the practitioners who support them in bringing value and quality to everyday life.
Debbie Muno and Jeff Summers are the Managing Directors of Genos North America, which is an organization that works with organizations around the world and helping them with organizational assessments and performance tools in addition to training for coaches, consultants, and trainers. What they do is help advance not only the emotional intelligence and performance but also the overall workplace environments and quality of each person’s experience.
Thank you, Jeffrey. Thank you for having us.
It’s wonderful to have you here and be together again. When we’ve met in the past, it’s usually been around either a training session or some level of learning expansion of information. There’s something new happening in the world in relation to how we can become more responsive or smarter, how we relate to each other, how we can build strong, better and long-lasting relationships. I’m interested from your perspective. When you served the years that you’ve been working in this field and the people you’ve met over the time that you’ve been doing the work that you’ve done, what are some of the highlights that stand out for you in regards to the impacts and in the lives of not only the people who are practitioners but also in the organizations that they’ve served as well?
It’s a very humbling and overwhelmingly wonderful responsibility to be involved with Genos and to do what Jeff and I do in terms of our Genos outreach. We are so fortunate to work with people, Jeffrey, such as yourself, coaches, consultants, trainers, HR directors, OD professionals, learning and development professionals and collaborate with people globally to make people’s lives better. That sounds like this broad overarching statement, but when you think about what emotional intelligence is, emotional intelligence is about being smarter in the ways that we perceive and understand that we reason with. We use our emotions so that we can be more productive and we can be more productive with the people around us.
That sometimes sounds like purely a work thing when you talk about productivity. It’s not. It’s about having productive, personal relationships. Productive, meaning moving toward the positive. It’s far better to be engaged in communication in which both people feel heard, valued, appreciated, understood, and listened to than the opposite of that. When you get a chance to share, both professionally and personally, that’s quite humbling. Jeff and I have had this fabulous opportunity to work with people who make that magic happen. We have a small part in this process. Jeffrey, you were alluding to it earlier that our interactions are almost always like around learning something from each other. We’re earning our certification. We’re advancing that credential and becoming certified in another program or learning a different tool that Genos has.
We’re working with you and people such as yourself to be able to get upskilled so that you guys can go out and make a difference with all of the clients with whom you interact. You are the one who changes the game for people’s businesses but changes those people’s lives simultaneously. We have a small part in it. That small part is humbling to know that we have that small part in it. It’s you and all the people who you work with day in and day out, when they’re assessed, they participate in a training program, they learn to become more self-aware or flex and develop an empathy muscle, make decisions that include their feelings and the feelings of the people around them which means they make a better decision to get more buy-in. Those incremental things that you enable happening in your client’s organizations day in and day out, that’s the heavy lifting. We have a small part of it that we’re honored to have. You do the heavy lifting in this world.
Thank you, Debbie. Jeff, turning to you. I know that when you and I have ever spoken, you’ve talked about that coming from a sales perspective and how you’ve adopted emotional intelligence into that wholesales conversation. I’m curious. What was it you saw with the connection between the two from your professional experience over the years?
I’m going to use an example. I like to use a story and analogy. I think it sits a little bit better. There’s a couple of situations that stick out that connect back to what we do. One of them, I’m going to say it was 1989. It was that day where I went out to look at buying my first new car. I had three different car dealerships to look at. The first two we went to were the typical feature-benefit and I never made the connection. I went to the third place. We were going through the information. Mark, the salesperson, said something near the end. This was when the digital speedometers were all coming in. I’ll never forget this. He said, “As you’re looking at cars, we’re seeing some challenges intermittently with some of the new electronic work. It’s all transforming. If in case you do purchase a car here and we need to get at work time, I’d like to introduce you to some of our people and our service department so you can see what’s going on just in case you get it.”
If you think about it back in the day, show no weakness and have an answer for everything. If they have an objection, there were books for you and then you would read on those. It was the first time. I didn’t know at that time there would be Neuroscience and people to look at. What we call authenticity, there was somebody who was being vulnerable and transparent in time or that wasn’t the case. That was the person I bought the car from. There was trust. There was a real person. There were other stories, but that was the one that, at that point, I embraced. As we got more into emotional intelligence, that story came through crystal clear. It’s been going on forever. It’s just that now there are more Science to back it up. That story in particular was somebody being genuine, transparent and vulnerable in 1989. I connected with that and I’ll never forget that story.
It sounds like it’s something I would do as well. It’s someone who is willing to put it all out there and be real. That’s the term I like to use that can be a benefit versus something that can be seen as a deficit. When we use the word in the context of the work that you do, how would you describe or define emotional intelligence?
We have this definition where, in our world, we talk about observable behaviors when we talk about emotional intelligence. This has a lot to do with what do people do or they not do in their interactions with others. When you think about a definition of emotional intelligence that is dialing in and paying attention to or understanding and becoming aware of how we feel at any given moment in time, it’s reasoning with that. Meaning, using that information to make decisions being able to understand how other people are feeling, how they’re making decisions, and this notion of adding how we feel into everything that we do.
Depending upon your age, I don’t have a problem talking about my age. In my time coming up in the workplace, I was told repeatedly, “Check your emotions at the door. It’s a business decision. Leave your emotions out of it.” What we now know is that, first of all, our emotions live in a part of our brain called our limbic system. The last time I checked, all of us take our brains with us everywhere we go. There’s no way to extract that, put it in a TSA bin, and set it in a cubby until you come back at the end of your workday. Our emotions are part of us and part of our humanity. We bring them with us everywhere we go. Every conscious moment we have, they’re present.
We now understand that they’re in play. There’s no way to leave them out of it. If we can’t leave them out of it, what do we need to do? We need to understand and work with them, not have them work against us. That’s what the essence is of emotional intelligence. Maybe it’s easier to think about it in terms of not so much ourselves, but let’s think about other people. If you think about someone who you’ve ever worked for or with who was the best person to ever be around like a coach, boss, mentor, or colleague, but when you were with them, you felt like you were at the top of your game. You were super motivated to be with them. They seem to treat you in a way that you just continually brought the best version of yourself. You were creative. You felt included. You were engaged in what you were doing. It was a safe place. You could make a mistake. Mistakes were places where we learned and where we weren’t ridiculed. That person would be demonstrating a lot of emotional intelligence and the way that they communicated with you.
The opposite, unfortunately, we all have been around people who we would describe as the worst person we’ve ever worked for or with. That terrible boss or teammate was incredibly difficult. These folks have the absence of emotional intelligence. They are behaving in a way, demonstrating, and exhibiting behaviors that we would call unproductive. They made us feel like we were being berated. Sometimes, we hear people are bullied or made us feel that our ideas are worthless. We hear all the time they felt stupid, not included, or manipulated. We’ve all been in that kind of environment, too. That would be on the other end of the demonstration of emotional intelligence.
We have these two reference points. If you think about two people in your life who are like that, the person you described at your best is somebody who behaved in a way who was emotionally intelligent. They were dialed in with how they were feeling and how you were feeling. They use those emotions that both of us have in our heads all the time in a way that was productive and collaborative with our technical ideas and emotions. It’s impossible to leave them out. The best thing to do is to have them become an asset. For them to become an asset, we have to work on that like swinging a golf club, or learning any skill we have to work on it. When we do, we can forge strong relationships professionally and personally.We bring our emotions everywhere we go. We need to and work with them instead of against them. Click To Tweet
The concept of, “While I’m at work, I’m this person, but when I’m at home, I’m a different person,” doesn’t seem to apply here in what you’re saying, Debbie.
No. You have those emotions and they come with you everywhere you go. As a listener, if you’ve ever had a bad day, you tend to bring that home with you. Even when you’re actively trying to engage with your family, that is omnipresent. That worry, frustration, or anger, whatever that emotion is with you. If you can learn how to work with that, then you can have these negative emotions that we all experience every day. It’s not that it becomes utopian. We experience these negative emotions, but we are more skilled at experiencing them. We are more skilled at responding to them in a productive way. We become more skilled at being resilient.
Even when we do have those negative emotions, we deal with them productively, and we can rebound from them. That beyond having a more pleasant day and evening has a lot of implications on your emotional and physical well-being. Reducing occupational stress and increasing resilience do a whole lot for your holistic being. I know that’s a big thing to say like, “I had a bad day. Do you mean if I deal with that better, I can be more healthy?” The answer to that is, “Yes, you can be.”
Jeff, you were describing your car experience. It sounded you were alluding to the fact that they demonstrated their admission that something could go wrong was something that was an incentive for you to buy from that company. It would seem that the whole model of being the strong hero leader is one that is diminished through having that awareness. Being authentic means that sometimes it’s okay to admit that you may not have all the answers, you may not be the best, or there may be mistakes and yet you can still have quality, be a value, and meet the bottom line as well. In the years, you’ve worked with your experience. You’ve worked with different companies. I know in the areas of sales where you’ve excelled in many years and doing some training in that space. What are some of the attitudes that you come across when you do speak with salespeople and companies themselves who continue to promote that persona, “We cannot show any fallibility here?”
I’ll use an example. This goes back to 2002. We were living in Tampa, Florida. I think I can click off a few of the questions that you had. We’ve all been to those home shows, where there were aisles and aisles of booths. They were 10×10. There was a person behind the desk and they have their business cards. This was a show like a lot of those other home shows with different equipment. There was one booth that I had done some research on that I wanted to check some things out. I was standing near the end of the aisle, but I could see the booth I needed to get to. I noticed that there was a person behind a desk, a rep or a salesperson.
By watching the body language of that person talking to someone who was in front of them where I wanted to go, it was one of those where you talk about back in the day in sales, “You got to be that person. You got to close.” I could just tell by the body language of both people. Here was what transpired in my mind, “I’m looking to go to grab some information. I see this person almost run away.” My first thing was that whole self-awareness like, “This person is going to try to close me,” which is coming back to your question, which is the way salespeople close and always be closing.
My first thing was, “That’s not what I want.” It was that pushback and trigger. I sat back and said, “I don’t need the information that bad. I’m not going to go.” That was that kind of ability to work through, “What am I going to do?” We all do that, “I don’t want to be sold to.” One of the most important learning experiences from that was 3 or 4 months later. I was on the other side. I was doing a trade show. I was that salesperson. I think I always did a decent job. I learned so much from how I felt listening or watching that interaction with those two people. It felt so bad.
My first thought was that comes back to some of that empathy or awareness of others. I changed at that point moving forward to be a different kind of person. I respected the people as they came up. It wasn’t roll over and play dead, but I did not want to show up and be that person that I saw back in that Tampa Home Show. It was interesting because I would always be closing. It was 2:00 or 4:00. It was red or green. We’ve always been there and coming back to, “You got to be a certain way.” We’re humans. When we feel that pushback, we push back and nothing good comes out of it. It’s a different way to answer your question, but it is how we’re made to feel as Debbie talked about.
There was something in what you were saying and, Jeffrey, what you were asking that was occurring to me as I was listening to this. The previous point was a little bit about, “I made the note of perfection.” There’s this notion in leadership that you have this armor around you, you know everything, you must answer everything, and this is the way that it is. It’s like this Teflon exterior. When the reality is, leaders are human beings. By nature, human beings are not perfect. Attempting to be perfect is elusive. We are humans and we are not static. We grow. We hope that we are green and growing every day. Someone who ascends into a role of leadership has grown into that role. You don’t just start there on day one. You grow into that role, which is proof that we don’t know things. We learn things. We employ and deploy those things we learn. We have a new skill and we’ve grown into leadership.
I was listening to Jeff talked about that particular experience, notion of sales, and always be closing, which inevitably has felt adversarial. It is some battle of the wits, “Who’s going to win here and close the sale?” When we put emotional intelligence into that recipe of sales or leadership, what that does is that eliminates this notion of adversarial, “I either know it or I don’t. You’re going to buy it or you’re not. You’re going to buy blue or green.” It removes this sitting across the table as it were from one another. When we are smarter about using our emotions and the emotions of other people, we can then co-create. We can collaborate to get to where we want to go.
In a leadership role, that means that when someone asks you something or share something and you don’t know the answer, it’s out of your sphere. The old days would have been to probably stop that down and still have that Teflon on the outside where now, this is an opportunity to say, “Can I learn something new? Jeff, that’s a good idea. I don’t know the answer to that. Why don’t we research it together and let’s come back next week at the meeting?” As humans, we can’t know everything, but that’s co-creating the solution and showing some humanity, which is authenticity because none of us are perfect.
When salespeople work to co-create the solution, we move away from this notion of selling per prospect versus a salesperson. We move toward this notion of, “Your company produces a product, a service that our company, or that I need. Help me to get that. Facilitate that so that we can implement that into our system, life, home, or whatever the case may be.” That notion of laterally walking together is a whole different mindset than the opposite side of the court.
I think that’s what emotional intelligence does. It recognizes, “None of us are perfect. None of us have all the answers, but if we work together to co-create what we’re looking for to collaborate with where we’re trying to go, it’s like horsepower. One horse pulls one horsepower, but two horses pull four horsepower, we get to engage the horsepower of the people around us.” For me, that’s exciting from an ROI standpoint, but it’s extraordinarily exciting from a connection, collaboration, and communication standpoint. I didn’t mean to pop in there, but that became so clear to me when I was listening to those two different ideas that got connected.
It’s great. I appreciate you jumping in there, Debbie. Listening to what you’ve both shared so far, what stands out for me is that there’s a real benefit. There’s a tangible benefit and an intangible benefit to being a leader, being a person of influence who can demonstrate. They’re focused on developing their skills in this area that they can impact a number of people, achieve some of the levels of success, and performance that they want.
The conversation I tend to have with many is like, “Everyone knows it. Everyone knows that you got to be a good person. You got to be nice. At the end of the day, my boss wants me to get things done. I only got so much time. I don’t have time to be nice to everybody.” How often do you hear emotional intelligence like, “Whatever, it’s one of that soft stuff. I am who I am. I got here because it’s how I am?” How do you respond to stuff like that?
I think there are a couple of different levels. I’ll use Jeff’s notion of an example and a story. I’m going to underpin this with a little bit of Science. He mentioned that we live in Tampa. I’m a bit proud that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers won the Super Bowl this 2021, with Tom Brady as our quarterback. Anybody who is a bit of a football fan who follows Tom Brady, whether you are a New England Patriots fan for all those years and you’ve now followed him and become a Bucs fan.Leaders are human beings and human beings are not perfect. Attempting to be perfect as a leader is elusive. Click To Tweet
The interesting thing about Tom Brady is Tom Brady’s way of living to bring the best version of himself to the field every day. What I mean by that is his workout routine, hydration routine, nutrition routine, and sleep routine. He talks about these things readily. Some people might say, “I like to have my fried food. I like to drink my soda. I want to have those three beers on a Friday night.” Tom Brady is saying, “I’m going to do things slightly differently because by being hydrated, having this nutrition plan, sleeping plan, and this mind coach, I can be the best that I can be when I’m on the field. I need to eat every day. Everybody needs to eat every day anyway. I’m going to choose what I eat because that’s going to fuel me to put the best version of me out there on the field.”
I think, in many respects, this is what the skill set of emotional intelligence is. When you were saying like, “I don’t have time to be nice,” somebody might not perceive that they have time to “be nice” but they are being a way anyway. They’re making a request of someone to get something done. They’re sending an email anyway. They’re putting forth an agenda item anyway. They’re communicating anyway. It’s not taking any more or less time to do that in a way that is more emotionally intelligent. It’s simply choosing to be hydrated with water and eat healthily than eating out of the vending machine. You’re going to do it anyway. If you’re going to be communicating with these people around you, why don’t you do it in a way that puts them in an environment where they get to be Tom Brady, where they are in an environment that they can bring the best versions of themselves?
This is the bit where that Science comes in. If you thought about the worst boss or the worst person you’ve ever worked for around in the earlier part of this conversation, when you think about what it feels or felt like to be around that person, it’s pretty awful. We feel frustrated, worried, and stressed. We have anxiety. Nothing is ever right. Maybe we don’t know what version of them is going to show up. They’re temperamental. That’s a difficult environment to work in. Your body as a human being is trying to survive that day. Your body is in what we call threat circuitry when that happens. We’re not bringing the best version of ourselves. We’re not coming up with the best idea. We’re not partnering with another colleague in a way that creates a great solution to a problem. We’re trying to cope our way through the day, to get to the lunch period.
Conversely, when we’re in a work environment like the best person we ever worked around where you felt good and motivated, that’s called reward circuitry. In reward circuitry, we feel valued, appreciated, and meaningful. When we’re feeling that way, we have a heightened sense of critical thinking and problem-solving capability. We have a heightened sense of being engaged. We are at the peak of our creativity. That’s where ROI happens. Underneath that, your amygdala and brain experience everything in the world and it’s designed to keep you alive. Stuff that looks dangerous is deemed dangerous. You land up in threat circuitry and all of the emotions connected to it. We make all of our decisions and behavior based off of that. When we’re in a good environment, things are positive, not dangerous, safe, and kind of a friend versus foe, then the biology of our brain sets us up to be in this reward circuitry.
I always find it interesting if a leader says, “I don’t have time to be nice,” because you have time to be something. Emotional intelligence is about being smart with your emotions and the people around you. Why not learn the specific skills to be in a way that sets your team up to have the best ideas, the best problem-solving capability, and be the most creative and collaborative? We got to be it anyway. We might as well be in a way that creates ROI for us.
It’s a different frame than I was expecting. I appreciate those insights, Debbie. Jeff, anything to add something here?
Debbie has laid out so much of that foundation. We’ll get people, Jeffrey, who are not in our sphere who are learning and excited. Maybe it’s a workshop or a talk and they’ll say, “I need to go back and talk to our management group or our senior executives.” They’re going to want it in business-speak, “Where can I show what you guys do as what we do?” It happens. We have our language. It’s no different than a business has their language. Some areas that are very common if I go into, for instance, any website for a company and they have something there where they’re around core values or mission statement. It talks about integrity, how they treat people, empowering, and those things.
One area that’s very crystal clear is when a company is trying to hone in on culture and core values. Many of our competencies and behaviors under emotional intelligence speak directly to that. There’s a direct connection between EI behaviors, many of the core values, and the cultures that companies seek. Another area that’s easy is when organizations have a job description. It’s an easy one to grab any kind of management or leadership supervisory. There are going to be things about collaboration, having people engaged, employer of choice, being present, being resilient, and being able to bounce back.
Grabbing a job description for any role where you’re collaborating in a team or you’re leading, there are going to be multiple bits of information. Sometimes, companies will say, “I get this emotional intelligence from that standpoint, but where does it speak? How does it connect back to our organization?” Those are some things. I know you talked about retention and engagement, but they’re all over the place, Jeffrey. Sometimes, it’s just a matter of showing them where this language speaks to this language and then they get it.
Both of you have laid out a clear map of how we interact with each other. We’re leaving those breadcrumbs everywhere we go and connecting the dots. I think it’s being consciously aware of the amount of breadcrumbs we leave around and the people who are picking up those breadcrumbs. Are we leaving healthy ones or unhealthy ones for people to snack on? One thing I do have to say, Debbie, about bringing in Tom Brady. I allowed you to expand upon that, even though personally, that’s something I would have avoided by in my analogies, but that’s okay. I do respect his professionalism and success. That’s for another episode. You and I could talk about that later. One last question to both of you. People often would be asking themselves like, “Is it natural? Can I learn this?” We teach and show people that this is a learnable skill. What do you find is helpful for people to believe that, “I can learn this or adapt this skill and continuously develop it over time?”
When I was listening to you and Jeff talk, especially around core values, this is something that organizations go to great lengths and expenditures to craft these core values for an organization. We want to say to all the people in the organization, “We’ll have integrity. Be trustworthy. Wave that magic wand. Be engaged. Be great at customer service,” but what’s not under there are the steps that, “How do I become more customer service-oriented? When you say integrity, exactly what does that mean? What does that look like?”
What our world of emotional intelligence does is because they are demonstrated behaviors. They are skills. They are all coachable. It is a constant process of learning, just like learning any other skill. In some respects, that might remind people of what it was like if you were in middle school when you learned a new language. Initially, you could only learn a handful of nouns or how to conjugate a verb. In short order, you’re putting sentences together and then you’re putting paragraphs together. You’re reading and speaking fluently. Emotional intelligence is no different. What we’re doing is providing these skills. You don’t learn them all at once. The idea is to find a couple of these skills and a couple of areas that are important to you and resonate with you.
Jeff has mentioned a couple of things like being authentic, which people think means telling the truth. Certainly, that is a big piece of authenticity, being genuine. It is very specific about things like honoring your commitments, keeping your promises, expressing how you feel to the right people to the right degree in the right place at the right time. Not creating false harmony, but rather expressing respectfully how you’re feeling and how that goes into your decision-making. These are very specific things that we can learn how to do more of.
When we pick a couple of these things that resonate with us, maybe because of something happening in our personal life, our personal context, or within our work context, the great thing about emotional intelligence is it’s all interconnected. We can pick 2 of 3 of these skills to get good at. When we do that, we often bring a lot more of those skills along with them because they’re like a collateral benefit to it. It is layered learning. When Jeff and I first finished our certification, it was about two weeks after and we had this very profound conversation about, “Do you look at the world completely differently? Do you engage in every conversation differently? Are you aware of what you type into an email in a whole different way?”Emotional intelligence is a set of demonstrated behaviors. They are skills. And just like any other skill, they can be learned. Click To Tweet
For me, it was a lot like somebody threw the blinds up after all these years. I thought, “This is great. Why did I not know this when I was 20 instead of 50?” When you do learn that skill, it’s constantly applied. You get better at it. Other skills come along with it. You start to work on a couple of other things that resonate with you. It is not a destination. It is a journey and a very rewarding one not only for you as the person doing the growing but for every person around you. You become a better colleague, leader, partner, parent, and friend. It has these extended ramifications that talk about the connection of humans, that human fabric.
I’ll end it this way. I started with an example. I’ll end with another one. I cannot end with one analogy. Debbie did a great job of putting that together. If somebody said to me, “Jeff, you need to do a better job building relationships with your team,” that would be me getting a photograph of a great chocolate cake with icing on it and no ingredients, recipes, cooking times, and utensils. What I had to do for a living was make that chocolate cake with that icing. I know there are some chocolates and there are a few things in it, but when we hear relationships, that’s like having that without any of the ingredients. What we’re doing is saying, “Do you want a relationship?” That’s key. There are a lot of things that go underneath and that’s the stuff that we’re doing. It’s like the ingredients, “What’s more important? What’s less important?” It’s the steps, behavior, or actions that drive relationships. We’re opening the hood and giving people an opportunity to get measured and get that information.
I’m thinking about the sales thing. These are good, talented salespeople or good at what they do, not because of the number that they log in to the spreadsheet for their monthly productivity. The number they’re logging in the spreadsheet for the monthly productivity is because of their relationships with their prospects and clients. Those are valued, authentic, and trusted relationships that are collaborative. They’re getting more referrals because you can trust this person. They’ll work well with you. That’s what’s driving the number in the spreadsheet.
It’s the same thing with great leaders in organizations. You’ll hear all the time people are clamoring to get into a department because of the person who’s leading the department or because of the team that you’d get to be on. That’s not because of what’s in the column on the spreadsheet. What’s the end product is because of the collaborative relationship. It’s because of the emotionally intelligent relationship. You’re exactly right, Jeff. It is the driver of outcomes. Whether that’s a sales outcome, leadership outcome, or personal relationship outcome, it is the driver of those outcomes on being as productive and positive as possible.
I love the way both of you brought those two worlds together. Emphasizing the fact that the results that you achieve, performance levels, and all the data are results based on something. If you focus on the process, engagement, and invest in that element, then the results will take care of themselves. I can ask far more questions and then we end up being a workshop. Thank you so much, Jeff and Debbie, for being part of the show. Your insights, enthusiasm, and passion from which you both presented your positions and shared your experiences speak to the people that you are. Continued success to you. You are truly making a big difference in the world. I’m grateful for our relationship and I know others are as well. We look forward to catching up with you down the road.
Thank you, Jeffrey.
Thank you so much, Jeffrey. Thanks for having us.
I want to thank Debbie Muno and Jeff Summers from Genos North America for being our guests. Always, thank you for allowing us to be a part of your day. We look forward to joining with you again and bringing you the people, resources, and information to help you on your leadership journey. Until next time, be good and lead well.
About Debbie Muno and Jeff Summers
Debbie Muno & Jeff Summers are the Managing Directors of Genos North America and authorized distributor and Master Trainers in Emotional Intelligence with Genos International.
Building on their thirty years of corporate experience working with psychometric assessments, they equip coaches, consultants and trainers, and organizational development specialists in small, medium, and corporate organizations with the assessment tools and education to advance Emotional Intelligence inside their client companies and organizations.
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